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Yes, we tried to liven up the discussion.Сообщение от Bagirapuss
the discussion of dead men was pretty amusing!
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Yes, we tried to liven up the discussion.the discussion of dead men was pretty amusing!
Folks, who is acquainted with the skills activation method based on Losanov's study - the one that we call "погружение в языковую среду" in Russian? We've decided to turn to this technique again, using it for summer studies. But the problem is, no one can offer a suitable word to call it in English! "Immersion" sounds stupid, "plunge" is even worse... Maybe there is a term ready-made, we just have never come across it?
Help if you can!
Are you asking about the term or the method? As far as the former is concerned, the term "language immersion" is usually used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_immersion
And it does not sound stupid at all, but perfectly corresponds to the russian equivalent "погружение".
Yeah, for most people rain may seem a negative thing too.Agree - "because of" seems to fit in best. From my own expereince with native speakers - they tend to use "due to" mostly in the positive sense - I mean, to describe reasons of positive things happening. "Because of", however, is very often used in the negative sense: "It's all because of you!"
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I agree with the word "immerse". Here's what I've found:
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/immerse
http://www.oup.com/oald-bin/web_getald7index1a.pl
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/immerse
Oksana Perutskaya. Aspire to inspire before you expire.
What about "submerge"? Is it also stupid? ...or not existent?))
Моя хата з найкращого краю в світі.
"An immersion programme is one in which children, as a group, are taught some or all of their school subjects in a language that is not their mother tongue. It is aimed at fostering bilingualism. In the Basque country in Spain, for example, children who speak Spanish as their first language receive primary education in Basque. Total immersion describes the situation when all curriculum subjects are taught in the second language; immersion is partial when only some subjects are taught in this way. Immersion should be distinguished from submersion, which is what happens when individuals (rather than groups) who speak one language are placed in a situation in which their education is mediated using another. This is often the case with the children of immigrants. Immersion programmes originated in Canada in the 1960s, where English-speaking children took their school subjects in French. These programmes have been extensively studied. Results show that, in general, immersion education is not prejudicial, either to the ongoing development of the pupils' first language, or to their overall academic performance. Moreover, they achieve a near-native level of understanding of the
second language, although, in production, their grammatical accuracy falls short of native speakers. The earlier and the more total the immersion, the better the results overall."
Scott Thornbury "An A-Z of English Language Teaching"
Oksana Perutskaya. Aspire to inspire before you expire.
Thanks! That's exactly what I was asking about. When we last used it, we did call it "immersion", but just for want of a better word. It was, however, very long ago - in the 80-ies. Since then, I haven't heard of anyone using it in Odessa on adult learners, as we used to do.
Yes, I am aware of the fact that it doesn't help develop accuracy in the students' speech. We also never used it that way, and we aren't going to try now. The objective here isn't to teach language, but much rather to activate the knowledge the students already have and to convert it into skills. I regard it as a useful and fun addition to regular normal language lessons, and that's what I am going to try now. Back in the 80-ies it brought in some really impressive results, especially regarding that our students were between 35 and 50 yers of age - and all of them were captains, chief officers or chief mechanics of merchant vessels... Now we have younger and far less self-concerned students, so it ought to be a success
Yeah, it was a rich topic. But Gottic (strange for a Gottic, isn't it?) considers it not live enough. And for all that he says his tastes differs from those of old women who enjoy everything moving, bustling, jostling, clashing, etc., no matter around what – be it even a dead body.Hello, everybody! I'm happy to be back here: I've spent some time without Internet connection... And you haven't been wasting any time: the discussion of dead men was pretty amusing!
It's been good brain exercise - trying to figure out what could have awakened such an interest!
Anyway, the best way to know for sure is to just wait a little. After a while, everyone will learn from own experience, who dead men are
They say "death is inevitable, so let's forget about it". But the implication of such statements must be that they know it perfectly well what it means, the Death. I strongly doubt it, though I admit that they may prefer to think so. They seem more likely simply to find this subject unpleasant to discuss.
They (Gottic in particular) call the death 'a simple fact'. But if it is so simple, why nobody can understand it? The facts of this kind demand not only knowing but understanding also, and such are all simple facts. By the way, that's exactly what Tolstoy said. "Ivan Illich knew that he will die, but he simply couldn't understand it" – something like that. But Ivan Illich all his life lived as an animal, and only approaching to the death start (too late, unfortunately) making a human being of him. This is the gist of the narration. Should we wait for that too? Or the earlier we think of death the better? And, secondly, should we humiliate the human mind reducing it to apish consideration as "to avoid" or "to take advantage"? And finally, this is truly reasonable and even common sensible, if you come to it – to think of the inevitable much more than of things (which we often do) which as likely to happen as not.
English Teacher, as far as I remember, you proposed to talk about "dead people", but not about death as an abstract philosophical notion.
Sorry, but it is hard for me to imagine "moving, bustling, jostling, clashing" around a dead body. Looks more like a carnival to me where a dead body, I hope you will agree, is absolutely unnecessary.his tastes differs from those of old women who enjoy everything moving, bustling, jostling, clashing, etc., no matter around what – be it even a dead body.
I read that story and I do not quite agree with you. As I recall, all that Ivan Illych experienced in the end was tremendous suffering. So what made a human being of him? His suffering and his agony before death? Yes, he must have had his thoughts in the end. Something like all people think of in or closer to the inevitable death, I belive - "was my life worth living, what was it all for..."But Ivan Illich all his life lived as an animal, and only approaching to the death start (too late, unfortunately) making a human being of him. This is the gist of the narration
Probably, Tolstoy put more philosophy or more of his own ideas in his thoughts. Did that make human being of him as you state? Ivan Illych had rather conventional life, but he was an official, had a family that looked after him to the last. To say that he lived all his life like an animal is an exaggeration. Thus you may call everyone's life. Is it only because people do not think about death deeply untill it comes too close?
Yes, I heard or read somewhere that knowing of the fact that we will all die makes us different from animals. But, first of all, that is definitely not the only thing that makes us different. And second, who really knows what the animals, at least some of them, actually know about. )
Finally, do not make any conclusions from my nickname here. It is a result of a mere random choice or thought as you wish, believe me, and has nothing to do with my personality or positions expressed. So just do not pay attention to it.
Oh, sure, or it would have been "Gothic"... I'm sure English Teacher didn't mean to make fun of your nickname.
I do agree with you about animals: elephants, for instance, know what death is. They will come again and again to places, where some of their relatives died, and spend a lot of time giving honours to their bones... Does it make them human? I don't think so. We are and remain different species, no matter hat and how much we really know.
As for attitude to Death itself... Oh, I think it is rather informative, if you wish to understand a person. I mean, it tells a lot about the level of your maturity, doesn't it?
Оh, I know he didn't.
He just tried to presuppose something basing on my nickname. I just advised him not to do that.
GottikWhat, then, did you think we were going to discuss? Some aspects of carrion putrefaction? Embalming fluid composition? Cemetery sanitation? Forensic methods of corpse dating (English Teacher, as far as I remember, you proposed to talk about "dead people", but not about death as an abstract philosophical notion.
You are wrong here. Dead body is such savoury an appetizer to that carnival… What is carnival, anyway?Looks more like a carnival to me where a dead body, I hope you will agree, is absolutely unnecessary.
It's very pleasant to meet a literary educated person. Still, isn't ability to speak a foreign language a sure token of education, especially in our country? By the way, did you read a short story by H. James "The altar of the Dead" (I am not quite sure about the title)? There he put the question "who are they" exactly in that form. At least, so was my impression.I read that story
Ivan Illich couldn't have his own thoughts. You see, he was a fictional personage.Probably, Tolstoy put more philosophy or more of his own ideas in his thoughts.
This exaggeration you will meet in the novel itself. If I remember well, it was like this: "The life of Ivan Illich was most ordinary and most horrible". Though I don't think Tolstoy would despised animals. And I never said that only people know about their own death. I meant animal attitude towards death. For animals such attitude may be (sometimes; and I saw it) quite noble, but for men it is always ignominious. (I know, Tolstoy wouldn't have agreed with me, but it would've been only words on his part)Ivan Illych had rather conventional life, but he was an official, had a family that looked after him to the last. To say that he lived all his life like an animal is an exaggeration.
BagirapussOh, this is a mature thought. My congratulations. The matter is the question (about death) can exist only in the personal dimension. It somehow has to become personal. And it not necessarily means 'to live into' or 'to encounter with'. For me it became personal at the age of four of five the latest, with the first conscious thoughts and (often tied with them) first distinct recollections. One of those – it's awful to say – obsessive thoughts was 'Could I have been born to another parents and into quite other place – and would I still be Me?' Such questions confirm their own verity, so in the end I decided for metempsychosis, though I wasn't very sure (and so it remains to this day). However, what a nice occupation for a boy of four, isn't it?As for attitude to Death itself... Oh, I think it is rather informative, if you wish to understand a person. I mean, it tells a lot about the level of your maturity, doesn't it?
But nothing was equal to the thought of the death. I can't even call it thought. It was The Idea.
You know, there is some peculiar kind of dreams that you dream when you lay in fever. It is the only dream for the whole night, no matter how often you waken. You pick it up where you left it, and it can't be otherwise, because it's a circle, a tormenting effort to visualise some abstract and slippery idea. But in the idea of the death there was nothing abstract. There was nothing to abstract. I think, never in human life, even on the verge of the death itself, there can be a period like this the earliest, so near still to non-existence, when the idea of one's own finality appears so neat and appalling, not polluted yet by either gruesome pictures of physical death or sordid details of contacts with people.
Ух-ты! English-speaking thread!
In Mickey Mouse we Trust
If it is plain enough for you why don't you just answer this question yourself first and then listen to the opinions of others?
Thank you. Leaves much to be desired though. From my side I can say that you have quite a good vocabulary. I had to look up a few words.It's very pleasant to meet a literary educated person.
Well... May be... It depends though. Definitely not 100%.Still, isn't ability to speak a foreign language a sure token of education, especially in our country?
No, I did not read that. I know the writer though. I read his story "Daisy Miller".By the way, did you read a short story by H. James "The altar of the Dead" (I am not quite sure about the title)?
What do you mean by animal attitude to death? Could you specify?I meant animal attitude towards death.
Prabably, but not "like an animal", right? Or is it the same for you?If I remember well, it was like this: "The life of Ivan Illich was most ordinary and most horrible"
Don't you think that Tolstoy knows much more about death right now then you do?I know, Tolstoy wouldn't have agreed with me, but it would've been only words on his part
Gottik
Why can't each of us shape this theme a bit differently, in accordance with personal proclivities (look up this word too, and maybe 'propensity')?If it is plain enough for you why don't you just answer this question yourself first and then listen to the opinions of others?
You won't believe…You did not probably pull all these words straight from your head.
It isn't the only one. Though, if you insist…However, as you definitely saddled up you favourite horse talking about all that…
Here is the verse. "A tiny graveyard worm"
I've had a dream. In it my sight acquired
the queer property to penetrate through soil
Or maybe it was soil became pellucid.
Or better still. I was myself a worm
Or something like. I felt in every coil
Affinity to place where I was born.
Another world. A huge amount
of roots. And which is which?
Entangled, intertwined more tightly, more expansive
than in the upper world. And each
Connected in the furtive struggle
For soil and, may be... soul.
Are not we all like that?
You see yourself as separate, as something different, as "myself".
But have the common flesh, and dust, and graveyard worm.
Yes, a "new woman". He liked that smart type. But it was something like a logical fallacy. If you like feminists you must like feminism. But read his "The Bostonians" … Anyway, he is an author worth reading the whole of him. Did you read "Turn of the screw" or "Aspern's papers"?I read his story "Daisy Miller".
Mostly indifferent, I think.What do you mean by animal attitude to death? Could you specify?
In general, it is like 'abject animal instincts': nothing abject for animals.Prabably, but not "like an animal", right? Or is it the same for you?
No.Don't you think that Tolstoy knows much more about death right now then you do?
Ситуация складывается так, что меня либо скоро забанят либо мне самому приятнее будет уйти. Если хотите продолжать разговор, предлагаю перенести его в альтернативый форум "Одесса-Мама". Я уже там. Одна из страниц http://www.***********/showthread.php?p=31907#post31907
Absolutely! Tha latest discussion has nothing to do with teaching and methodology.
Oksana Perutskaya. Aspire to inspire before you expire.
I thought of something like this from the very start... But it's nice to have an English-speaking thread after all, isn't it? It's practice, and someone might be able to pick up some vocabulary, which is nice and useful... So, join in!Ух-ты! English-speaking thread!
The latest discussion hasn't been really cheerful, but it's pretty philosophic, which is also a nice thing
Well, if you are teaching English, it doesn't necessarily mean that all your interests have to be about teaching and methodology, does it? You might like the idea of just discussing soemthing in English from time to time.Absolutely! Tha latest discussion has nothing to do with teaching and methodology.
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